The Truth About IPP Sentences

IPP changes will not apply to existing prisoners as Clarke and May do battle

Theresa May objects to IPP sentence reform

May - against IPP reform

Clarke - "IPP sentences are a stain on British Justice"

Clarke - "IPP 's are absurd"

TheOpinionSite.org has been told by the Ministry of Justice that the proposed changes to Indeterminate Sentences for Public Protection (IPP) will definitely not be retrospective and will definitely not apply to existing IPP prisoners.

This refusal to deal with the problem of some 6,500 existing IPP prisoners, along with the introduction of mandatory life sentences,  appears to be a result of political pressure from the Home Secretary, Theresa May who has diametrically opposing views to those of Mr Clarke.

Ken Clarke has proposed in the House of Commons that IPP sentences should be abolished and that those sexual and violent offenders who are convicted of a second serious, similar offence should receive a mandatory life sentence instead. He originally suggested that those IPP prisoners who were past their minimum release period or ‘tariff’ might have had their sentences converted to determinate periods of custody, with some of them being released as a result.

After pressure from David Cameron and Ms May in particular, Clarke has now changed his tune entirely, despite having already made it clear that the IPP was ‘a stain on British justice’ and that it was effectively impossible for an IPP prisoner to prove that his level of risk to the public had been sufficiently reduced to warrant his release. It would seem that the prospect of Cameron being accused of being ‘soft on crime’ was just too much for the Prime Minister to bear.

A Ministry of Justice spokesperson told TheOpinionSite.org:

“These changes will not be applied retrospectively. Prisoners currently serving IPPs will continue to serve their terms. Each individual prisoner will continue to be assessed on a case by case basis by the Parole Board.

“Serious sexual and violent offenders will not escape jail as a result of abolishing IPPs. We expect more people to serve life sentences as a result of abolishing IPPs. Protecting the public is the government’s top priority.”

This clearly political statement makes it clear that for existing  IPP prisoners there is no more hope of release now than there was before Clarke originally made his proposals. With ambitious Labour MPs such as the Shadow Home Office Minister, Gloria de Piero trotting out the populist philosophy of Tony Blair and with Conservative right wingers desperately trying to satisfy the tabloids and protection charities, it is clear that Mr Clarke has not been allowed to do what he should have done in addressing the huge problem of existing IPP prisoners who are past their tariff.

What Clarke has proposed however is some kind of ‘test’ that the Parole Board can use in assessing risk. The purpose of this new test would be to try and circumvent the undue bias in probation reports which tends to exaggerate risk and the fear of reoffending when often there is actually no realistic probably of the offender committing another similar offence. Probation officers are generally risk averse, as are prison officials, those who sit on MAPPA panels, policemen and others responsible for guessing (for that is what they actually do) whether or not it is safe for someone to be released or what their level of risk might be.

Mr Clarke has been forced by Theresa May (who is also the Minister for Women) and others to hold yet another ‘consultation’ on how the new release test should be formulated. Needles to say, this will prevent any changes to the Law from taking place anytime soon but without the consultation – along with the new mandatory life sentence alternatives – the government could run into real difficulties in getting the new law onto the Statute Book.

In practice this mean that IPP sentences will continue to be handed down at a rate of between 80 – 100 per month, the original intention being for about 80 a year. The sentence, introduced by David Blunkett – who now admits that his policy failed miserably – has turned out to be a nightmare for the Prison Service and politicians alike. At a cost of up to £250,000 per IPP prisoner per  year, the IPP sentence is a drain on resources as well as being almost impossible to manage in terms of a prisoner’s progression through the system.

TheOpinionSite.org realises that for IPP prisoners and their families this is all bad news. The prospect of a system where those who are genuine about not reoffending might be released from prison seems to have been swallowed up by political opposition based on satisfying the tabloids, the public protection industry and the aims of young, inexperienced and ambitious politicians, many of whom are women and see the IPP as a way of promoting their feminist agenda.

The Parole Board is hugely under-resourced when it comes to making release decisions. It has a backlog of cases which leads to delays of up to 18 months or longer in holding release panels, there are insufficient staff and the Board is constantly under attack from the Probation Service who try to prevent the release of IPP prisoners in any way that they can for fear of being criticised if something should later go wrong.

There are very few hostel places available for post-release supervision, a culture of recalling prisoners to custody for technical ‘breaches’ of their release licence is rife and there is an ingrained belief in young probation officers who have very little experience of life that every serious offender is almost certain to reoffend when in fact such is not the case.

None of this makes it easy for Mr Clarke to address the ‘catch 22’ situation in which IPP prisoners find themselves. As he pointed out to Parliament, IPP prisoners are expected to somehow ‘prove’ that they are safe to release when in reality, given that they are in custody, it is impossible to do so.

Many IPP prisoners should probably not have received the sentence in the first place and only did so because the legislation took the necessary discretion away from judges, something else that Clarke now intends to remedy.

Blair said he was ‘proud of IPP sentences’ and equally ‘proud’ that so many people were being recalled to custody. The Murdoch press led by the Sun and now defunct News of the World, which at the time was supporting (and apparently exploiting) Sara Payne, heralded the sentence as a triumph and a blow against its favourite easy target, child sex offenders. It was only when the sentence began to be handed down to many other types of offender and started wrecking families in the process that the stupidity of the legislation became clear for all to see.

Nevertheless, had Cameron been leading a pure blood Conservative government now, there would be no change to IPP sentences anyway. It is only the influence of the Liberal Democrats that has forced the change, something deeply resented by Theresa May and other power-hungry, Tory right wing MPs. If it were not for the Coalition, even more people would be receiving IPP sentences in an attempt to  prove that the Conservatives are the ‘Party of Law and Order’.

TheOpinionSite.org has to say, albeit with a heavy heart, that it is unlikely that there will be any real change in the plight of those currently serving IPP sentences for some considerable time. Politics has once again triumphed over common sense as MPs from all sides try to hang on to power at a time when the money has run out and the electorate are feeling hostile toward the government that it elected.

The sad truth is that May and Cameron, purely for political reasons, have put the brake on any worthwhile reform. There is a danger too that should Clarke be replaced at any time before the new legislation has been fully passed by Parliament, this policy of change will run the risk of being scrapped altogether for the sake of political expediency. It is only Ken Clarke’s own determination that is pushing the proposed changes forward.

The IPP sentence really is a stain on the British justice system but for those already serving one, it is likely that there will be no change to their circumstances any time soon and, unless a new release test can be devised and accepted by the politicians, the Parole Board, police and probation, the prospect of freedom for existing IPP prisoners and their families seems as distant as ever; for the time being at least.

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57 Responses to IPP changes will not apply to existing prisoners as Clarke and May do battle

  1. Kim
    April 28, 2014 at 2:14 pm

    Sign this petition as we believe in IPP being retrospective!!!

    Many prisoners are treated inhumanly, being held in custody for years far after their tariff has expired. I started this petition to change the structure of IPP. It will give prisoners a final date for their release. It is important to give them, as well as family and friends a date to look forward to.

    http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/chris-grayling-make-ipp-retrospective

    • Mavis Hall
      October 27, 2015 at 5:43 pm

      My son’s tariff was 13 year he is into his 18th year ,he s done every course some twice ,all he wants is to get out get a job and prove himself.

  2. martina H
    February 12, 2013 at 12:55 am

    IPP Prison Sentence Planning e petitions, Please sign

  3. Kelly
    December 3, 2012 at 4:06 am

    My Friends brother is on an IPP he got 6 months in 2008 what happened to him he was in a club and touched a girls bum not by accident he grabbed it and said to her hi he was arrested for assault its now 2012 nealy 2013 and he is still in ? why isnt the IPP over tarrif getting out I want to know what they have to do to be released.He has done all courses and is just sitting there in prison keeping a space for someone more violent.Come on let them out for dam sake its ridiculus.Lets Fight On until this is settled because they saying they are not letting them out they are no longer on IPP they are and have no sentance now.IDIOT government I wont be voting ever again and a lot my friends aint either…

  4. k. stephenson
    October 31, 2012 at 6:35 pm

    My son got a 2 year ipp he is now 5 years over tarif. he has jumped through hopps of fire and been a model prisoner. Doing everything they ask. but no light at the end of the tunnel.I compare this to other serious crimes of a sexual nature. A work colleuge got oinly 3 years fixed for sexualy molesting his own daughter and her friend. My sons crime was no where near as grusome but they have given him a endless ( ipp ) sentance. Justice, i hate my country i hate our system. Theresa may go to hell crawl under your rock, you have no deap understanding of any oth this. POwer drunk dicktating opinionated waste of space get out of polatics and give our loved ones a chance. to hell with my country to hell.

  5. mr jones henley on thames
    March 16, 2012 at 8:55 am

    probashon officeers mp.s solisitors court officials baristers judges all on the gravey trian and do not give a f..k about all prisoners we put more young men in prison than all of europe to rot in a prison cell with no hope at all ask them if they wood ragher go on the front line in afganisten and i know thay would and it would be more humane to put a bullet in the head than get a ipp sentence even wen out you will never be free of it thay will keep draging you back as it is to much work for tha probashon

  6. Upset Man
    March 9, 2012 at 10:26 pm

    I have some promising news form reading the Lords recent debate on IPP existing prisoners and they appear to want to develop courses that people can do on temporary release from C Cat prisons, providing more courses. However, although they stated there will no immiedate change to the release test, there maybe a move towards the Parole Board replying on more other evidence and having to prove the prisoner is still or is dangerous, this came from the current Liberal Justice Minster who was responding to the House. Search IPP Parliamentary debate, it is interesting and recent, although not law yet, but they did they did state they will not need legislation to change the release test.

    • Raymond Peytors - theopinionsite.org
      March 9, 2012 at 11:27 pm

      The problem seems to be that the Parole Board doesn’t really want to change the test, principally because of the inevitable conflict with risk averse probation officers and their negative reports. Ken Clarke has already made it clear that the proposed release test, which effectively reverses the current criteria for release, must be introduced but rather predictably, there is huge opposition from right wing Conservative and Labour MPs. – Editor

    • Martina Haynes
      March 10, 2012 at 6:26 pm

      Even the smallest bit of news towards getting this barbaric sentence scrapped is GOOD news. What goals does a prisoner have towards release if they are not given a date to look forward to? Also, how can they show the Parole Board they are reformed if they are not given a chance?

  7. Camilla
    February 27, 2012 at 5:49 pm

    My brother was sentenced to 2 years 2 months and 4 & half years on is still there, despite his risk harm matrix assesment having been scored at a significantly LOWER risk than the man in the street last year. He never phsyically touched anyone, but if he’d raped someone or attacked a pensioner he would be out by now. In europe his crime would have been unlikely to attract more thsn a 3 month sentence. Our 88 year old mother is extremely distressed and now due to ill health will be unable to ever see him again as the journey from London to Norfolk to visit him is more than she can manage. What about her human right to see her only son? I’m left looking after all his affairs, our mother, his daughter and long expensive treks up to Norfolk to see him every 3 – 4 weeks, and not surprisingly am on antidepressants to cope. People bang on about prisoners being punished, what about the punishment thse sentences create for the families? We have no clue when he’ll be released, and when he is, we will be on tenterhooks that he’ll be recalled for a slight misdemeanor such as being late to see his (very hostile ) probation officer, who has all to gain by re-imprisoning him. A couple of letters / visits twice a year are all she needs to do while he’s inside – 10 or more times the work on his release – is it any wonder that it’s in probabtion’s interests to keep IPP prisoners inside for as long as possible?

  8. chanell
    February 26, 2012 at 9:34 pm

    MY Boyfriend was sentenced to 5 yeras IPP in prison in 2009, He has not come to the end off his sentence yet but i am 90% sure that he wont come out on application for his 1st parole i think its really disgusting that courts can give out this sentence when they let murderers walk the streets, I am not saying that they are innocent people but judges are just handed out heavy sentences to all the wrong people. IPP is a disgusting sentence for anyone to go through the prisoners dont get a release date or anything, they dont know what to do to help them prove to the public and parole board that they have chaanged. My boyfriend was just sentence and left to hang dry on his own know one to tell him where to go from here, I dont think the justce system is right in this country my boyfriend got sentence to 5 years IPP when he was 17 years old which makes him a MANNER, When steven Lawrences killers got sentence they had to be treat as the age they where when they commited the crime now tell me how that makes sense? Coz my boyfriend was NOT treated like that he was treated as an adult. I dont actually think the courts know the seriousness of IPP when they are handed it out, but us as there loved ones do because where the ones what have to pick up the pieces. Yes anyone who commits a crime does deserve to be punished but when the government are not handing out fear sentences thats when its upsetting!!!!!!!!! I dont even know when my boyfriend when will be able to come out off prison and the funny thing is i dont even think the GOVERMENT/PAROLE KNOW THATS THE SAD THING…..

    • Jackie
      March 1, 2012 at 2:21 am

      Don’t be fooled Chanell, the Judges are well aware of what they are dishing out. The judges are advised by the probation officer who does the pre-sentence report, within that report the police & CPS provide info of previous convictions and info relevant to a pattern of behaviour. If the offence is one of the 96 listed in sch.15 of the Criminal Justice Act the judge will be instructed to give IPP. There is nothing reassuring that can be said re: the IPP, sorry. You should get ‘How to Survive an IPP Sentence’ by Raymond Peytors, it’s on this site. This will explain everything you need to know, it’s emotional and in your face but at least you will understand what is going on and how to deal with it. Insidetimes is the prison newspaper, you can google it and view online, there is loads of info there re prisons, services, also articles on IPP’s by solicitors and reporters. Be prepared to do loads of reading!

  9. Jackie
    February 14, 2012 at 8:58 pm

    My son got 4 1/2 yrs IPP. He has done his tariff but not his rcommended courses due to prisons keep moving him to prisons that do not provide courses. He is a CAT-B but is always sent to CAT-A due to prison assessing him as CAT-A But no assessment paperwork present at parole hearing. Parole hearing agreed to him having phsycological assessment as he has never had one, now the prison has moved him to another A-CAT prison. He was halfway through a voluntary course which now he will get no recognition for. His OASY’s report is being looked into by solicitor as we suspect this is wrong, also him constantly being moved. He hasn’t had a visit for over a year due to him being 100’s of miles away from family and friends. I also have signed the e-petition on the gov web site. I am on for making noise and making it common knowledge to the general public, if they actually understood the IPP they would not back it but join us in our battle. Whilst I was waiting to see my local MP last Friday re IPP, I was talking to a couple of guys about IPP, they didn’t know what it was. As I explained they were disgusted, said surely that was against the Human Rights Act. Is there some way we can make it common knowledge to the general public Raymond? I brought your ‘How to survive an IPP’ I sent some pages to my son. It was quite emotional reading, but am glad I read it, at least I know! I will do whatever I can to help but need some direction. I do believe because there are so many of us affected by this that we can make a lot of noise and make people listen. Any suggestions Raymond?

    • Raymond Peytors - theopinionsite.org
      February 15, 2012 at 11:09 am

      Editors note: Many more people know about IPPs now than previously, partly because more people have received them than was ever intended and partly because of TheOpinionSite.org and one or two other websites. There have been marches, protests, petitions and other attempts to change things but they have sadly achieved little. Thegovernment is committed to ending IPP sentences but refuses to do anything about those who are already serving an IPP sentence; governments are sensitive to political criticism and they would get plenty of that if they suddenly released 6000 people who had previously been labelled as “dangerous”. Britain is unbelievable bad when it comes to admitting that the justice system has got it wrong, something that happens regularly. Backbench MPs are frightened to death of the tabloids and Cameron and his cabinet are not much better. I should also point out that the only reason the government are scrapping IPPs (eventually) is on cost grounds; if it had plenty of money available, it would be increasing IPPs , not getting rid of them. More people need to do what you have done and talk to their MP but, as I said, don’t expect too much help from people who are generally only ever interesed in themselves and in getting re-elected. – Editor

      • Jackie
        February 20, 2012 at 11:24 pm

        ‘Name and shame’ is what they say ain’t it!
        We can do that, the public is drip fed little bits of one sided info on a daily basis, news, papers, mags, people etc. Most people just absorb and accept without question or thought!
        Maybe we should set up a campaign once this bill has been passed.
        Loads of short facts *length of waiting lists for OBP’s.*Powers the police & Probation officers have on an offenders future – their words can basically see you rot in Jail. They label it as ‘Intelligence’ so you never get to know what’s preventing you from progressing.* MAPPA & OASY’s, every inmate should get a solicitor to check theirs. *How much it costs to hold IPP prisoner CAT-A etc. Im sure there are much better examples that would hit home. There’s over 6000 IPP prisoners (depending what article you read)that’s 6000 plus families that all have a voice. We need to find a way of joining in force to make the facts known, nobody with a heart or an ounce of common sense is going to agree that the existing IPP prisoners should be left in limbo as they are at present.

  10. jamie hash
    February 4, 2012 at 8:03 pm

    this ipp business is absolute madness. england gone mad just like america. the world gone mad!!! can people get ipp for abh? i just feel sorry for the men on ipps who actually think they have a wife who is not cheating. very sad.

  11. nikki
    January 31, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    PLEASE EVERYONE sign abolish the GOVERNMENT IPP E-PETITION,
    ALL IPP PRISONERS NEED YOUR HELP

    • Raymond Peytors - theopinionsite.org
      January 31, 2012 at 3:56 pm

      One should point out that the government has already said it will get rid of the IPP sentence. What it is not prepared to do however is to convert existing IPP sentences to determinate sentences. – Editor

  12. mohamed
    January 29, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    what Money crisis cuting down on Benefits disability living allowance to keep Loved once in prison
    yeah why not lock ourself up
    what economy difficulty is there if we can spend £ 250.000000 ipp prison per year
    LOL what a joke

  13. loretta
    January 18, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    theresa may go get a life and stop ruining other peoples ipp is worst sentence ever i hope one day one of yours gets ipp but with mother like you no doubt best thing to happen to them

  14. kerry
    January 16, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    my boyfriend is sat waiting in prison to do a calm course, but theres no room in any of the prisons that actually do them, how much longer have i got to wait, he,s well past his tariff date, lost his mother in the mean time and wasnt a loud to the funeral, he,s had nobody to grieve to and by keepin him in there is just makin the situation worse, he needs to be out here with his family at a time loke this…ABOLISH IPP.S, how much longer does the goverment think this can carry on before shit hits the fan.

    • Raymond Peytors - theopinionsite.org
      January 16, 2012 at 12:29 pm

      You may want to consider using the popular Confidential Advice Service offered by the Members Club. It may very well give you access to advice that could speed the process. Just go to http://members.theopinionsite.org for details. – Editor

    • jamie hash
      February 4, 2012 at 8:10 pm

      very sad. goverment dont care.

  15. michel gales
    December 12, 2011 at 10:40 am

    ken clark, you say leave the decision with the parole bord geting to see the parole bord is impossible and to be represented as well
    ha ha you are a former barrister .mp.may and mp khan leave prison reform to the right m.p.ken clark. my son got 2 year tarrif and has been in 8 year and still in a cat b and been told he will do 3 to 4 in acat c and 2 in a cat d that is 14 years .no weapon used the victim did not need hospital .treatment .ok.he deserved to go to jail .but 14 years is is a fringe on his human rights.he will be happy with 10 year and 10 year parole then life probashon.be a man ken and do the right thing you will always be remembered for your integrity on the outcome on this injustice mr d. gales hartlepool

  16. julie houldsworth
    December 4, 2011 at 3:15 pm

    my son took parole board to court and won, he has been granted an oral hearing. He recieved 15 month ipp and he is approaching 6 years.

    • Raymond Peytors - theopinionsite.org
      December 4, 2011 at 3:18 pm

      Congratulations. Oral hearings usually bring out the truth – which is why the authorities hate them. Make sure he has a good barrister. RP

  17. katherien gleeson
    December 2, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    The Ipp was clearly wrong and was not working for a long time why why why keep something that does not work on exsiting inmates and stoping them from an education, thats clearly whats happening it’s an injustice. Help those 6000 people please.

    ” Learning Difficulties. I have become very interested and concerned about the number of inmates with literacy and numeracy problems, e.g. dyslexia and other learning difficulties Within the population of the United Kingdom around 4% of people are severely dyslexic and a further 6% have mild to moderate dyslexia. However, within the country’s prison population 80% of prisoners have poor writing skills, 50% have reading difficulties and 65% have trouble with numeracy. Half of all prisoners are at or below the level expected of an 11 year old in reading, two-thirds in numeracy and four-fifths in writing. This can cause truancy and also misconduct, even to the point of expulsion from school, which would lead to poor performance and low exam results, if any results received at all. “Nearly half of male sentenced prisoners were excluded from school and nearly a third of all prisoners were regular truants whilst at school and more than half of male and more than two-thirds of female adult prisoners have no qualifications at all.” It is therefore not inconceivable that an individual with a learning disability can leave school being unable to read and write, having no qualifications and little prospect of employment due to even seemingly small details of being unable to fill in an application form or read an article to find a job. In this situation do you think you could support yourself or even a family? Now it would not be correct to say that people in this situation will automatically turn to crime because the majority of people with learning disabilities do not use crime to support themselves and their families. But still many tens of thousands do and this can become the start of a vicious circle. According to the Offenders Learning and Skills Unit in the Department for Education and Skills, just under a third of the prison population is attending education classes at any one time, half of all prisoners do not have the skills required by 96 per cent of jobs and over 50% were unemployed before imprisonment. The whole justice system is so wrong and discriminates the ethenic minority most especially. The judges, probation,and everybody involved in passing out these sentences should ask themselves whether what they are doing is helping or damaging the criminal and family. Some prisoners are not gulity of the crime they are sentenced for, but they where in the wrong place at the wrong time. Sometimes you wonder if we are out of the dark ages. Criminals are someones brother, sister, son, daughter, father, mother or partner. What is needed is to work hand in hand with criminals instead of locking them up indefinately. Some of them once they come out they don’t know where to start because they have been isolated for far too long. We should copy the good prison systems from some European countries like Germany. Gemarny has a population of 90million with 40,000 prisoners. Uk has a population of 60million with 89,000 prisoners. Surely we can’t be that worse off. We are just not moving on with times. some Criminals don’t like to reoffend, but the system lets them down instead of helping them. I’m sure there is a lot of good in all of us if we channeled our efforts in the right direction.

    A kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.”

  18. michel gales
    November 24, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    my son got ipp the judge hed his discreton taken away so give him a 2 year tarff he has been in 9 years and told he will do 6 mour at least he got the ipp for a black eye on a man who did not need a hospital at all ken clark has to be left to do the right thing and May to look after things she knows some thing abuot

    • Jamie
      January 27, 2012 at 10:36 pm

      Ipps only came out in 2005 so how can he be in nine years also you cant get ipp for a giving someone a blackeye thats only abh needs to be a sec 18 i in favour of scapping ipps but your just making this up as you go along

      • Raymond Peytors - theopinionsite.org
        January 27, 2012 at 11:18 pm

        Editor’s note: For the sake of accuracy and whatever the circumstances of the case quoted by Michel, IPP sentences were introduced under the Criminal Justice Act 2003. The sentence can be given for any specified offence listed in Part 2 of the Act when the judge is also satisfied that the defendant poses a significant risk of serious harm to the public and if a life sentence is not justified or available. – Editor

        • mr jones henley on thames
          January 31, 2012 at 10:06 am

          thank you raymond. jamie this is my sons add ask him yuor self m.gales hm pison garth vines wolton preston pr268ne prison no lw8616 and he has just had a parol e kb that will be 11 years then 2 to3 in a cat c then 1 2 in a cat d 15 years one dus not make somthing up like this jamie and just let you knowe all the ones who got 2 strikes before ipp is now an ipp prisoner.

          • ian
            February 11, 2012 at 10:31 am

            the criminal justice act is 2003 but it wasnt introduced until april 4th 2005 any offence committed before this date you cannot receive a ipp sentence for therefore the longest he could have been in is approaching 7 years. 2003 is when the case was first put before parliment. The justice act 2005 was to release prisoners at the half way point instead of 2 3rds this wasnt bought into effect until june 2008 the justice act when its first accepted not put into practice

  19. brenda.jones
    November 22, 2011 at 11:58 am

    this stupid country interferes with all other countries who act inhuman but dont have the balls to sort out the inhuman acts in our prisons shame on ken clark for not standing his ground in getting these over tarriff prisoner released and shame on all of the people who vote to keep them locked up i just wish i had a wand i would lock all the idiots up on ipp sentences in power see them suffer

  20. helaina gardner
    November 14, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    what can i say , absolutely ridiculous , nothing is going to change these men are getting left to rot , its barbaric , im speechless , all to save face , im ashamed to be british these days the country is being run by idiots , ipp should be scapped , and if people have served there time and done everything asked of them , they should be sent home to there families , they may have committed crimes but they are human beings , how can these people even begin to prove they pose no threat to society if they are left to rot in prison .

  21. julia
    November 13, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    My son is serving six and half years he has done half his sentence so for.In the last 3years he has done O.U in law applied and completed all the victim awareness courses spent 6mths being assessed to see if he was mentally stable(which he is) and now this what do these people want!! he has three years to sit and wait because nothing in place except a metal cage.
    Let them sit, rot get bored never know when the sentence is final……….what chance is there when you have such a backward approach well done Theresa May

  22. tracy
    November 11, 2011 at 7:33 am

    In july my partner got a 2 yr ipp,his court of appeal case was refused because he is in “denial”, how can this be when he pleaded guilty?? When will someone realise its not just the offender who is suffering but their families too. We are also serving the same sentence with little hope of ever being released from this nightmare,our children are confused and cant understand why they cant be told when he is coming home, this is just so wrong, i sometimes think he would have been better off with a life sentence, at least then we would have an expected release date. the system has messed up in a BIG way

  23. Hollie braxton
    November 9, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    Guttless gave out hope with no intention of following through with it and miss may ought to be a shamed of her self i hope to god some day she will no what it feels like to have a loved one locked away with a ipp they might as well gave then a death penalty ipp is against human rights any one can see that they have wrecked our family yea my other half made a mistake but he ant a murder or a peado but the way it looks would of got a lesser sentence if he was where is the right in that its my little boy that is suffering ! Ken clarke have the balls and keep at what u say dont loose ur balls!

  24. petro
    November 8, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    Hello there everyone! May we all write to the house of lords only a few days left, on facebook on Ipp Prisoners Familys Campaign
    there is a templet there of a letter to 54 members that we need to write too, these are not politians who are hungry for votes we suffers of the Horrible sentence might be heard.

  25. Karen Knights
    November 7, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    Someone has started an e-petition on the govt website wwww.epetitions.direct.gov.uk – demanding that the Govt. make the changes to IPP retrospective or at least review and re-sentence current IPP prisoners, I have no doubt the Government will ignore it but I’ve signed it all the same. Spread the word and let’s get as many signatures as we can. We can’t give up trying to get this hellish situation changed.

    • katherien gleeson
      December 2, 2011 at 5:16 pm

      Thank you done so too

  26. shanta
    November 7, 2011 at 10:54 am

    this country is the worst of its time english people an histriclly known as abusives spitefull people and that has proven true with the ipp sentance this sentance has caused nothin but upset the offender dose not know when they will come out the family do not not and neither dose the victim every year after the offenders tariff has exspired the victim has to go thought the same torment are they getting out the offenders family has the same feeling most ipp are not dangerous probation just did not like the look of them if your face dose not fit in this worl you are truely screwed what a wicked set of people in this country and you all wonder why god pass’s so much bad on you i for one can honestly say english people are cold like the weather chameleon would be the right world for the english change and switch just like the weather and its all bad weather too

  27. deb
    November 5, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    Whatever happend to fairness equality!! This is a complete breach of human rights. Mr clarke you have come to decission that IPP does not work!! so how on earth can you justify that those who are currently serving an IPP sentence must continue with tis sentence!
    We abbolished the death sentence but those who were awaiting the death sentnece did they get murdered because it did fit with time limmits etc. Of course they didnt. The ipp sentnecing was originally for sex offenders and how many of these actually get given the IPP? statistics show hardly any. Instead the ipp is giving out to young people who are in more need of rehabilitating back into the community rather than lock them up and throw away the key!! NO WONDER WE ARE CALLED BROKEN BRITAIN.If the ipp is now abbolished then it should be for all rather than victimising those who are currently serving ipp it is DISCRIMINATION

    • mandy
      November 8, 2011 at 5:51 pm

      very well said,all mr clarke had to do was give the prisoners a release date,i have just signed the e-petiton.i think ever one should do the same,and we mite get some where with this sentencs i think that women theresa may should be sacked,she needs the boot.

  28. Oscar
    November 5, 2011 at 1:24 am

    here in NSW IPP sentences were introuduced by a gutless premier Bob Carr, then in the thrall of News Ltd’s daily tabloids who called the shots. He loved the concept of being “tough on crime” but it was as usual, all BS. Crime just continued as usal-much to the delight of the same tablods who couldn’t suvive without bad news to report.

    Particualrly as that news organisation has now been found to be basically a vast criminal conspiracy in itself with it’s HQ based in tax dodging havens.

    I still recall when politicians were idealists-on both sides-who basically wanted a cohesive and fair society but had different ways of reaching it. The daily argy bargy and debates were illuminationg and these men and women were often brilliant in getting their opinion and beliefs across to a puzzling public and bringing them around to their point of view.

    I can’t recall when it how it bagan to happen -that power was gradually transferred to a few press barons with politcians and parties becoming their lapdogs.

    • Raymond Peytors - theopinionsite.org
      November 5, 2011 at 11:16 am

      An incisive view. I’m wondering whether the British tabloids are now being discovered as a vast criminal conspiracy. Certainly, it is starting to look that way. – Editor

  29. jo
    November 4, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    my partner is an ipp he got a 3year tariff and is now been in there 6 years, he has his hearing in dec 2011, two people where he is have got there d-cat one is a ipp another is a lifer, im praying he gets his d-cat , his brother has been in 8 times since he started his sentence, lets hope, just shows us

  30. ipp wife
    November 4, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    My husband was sentenced to an 11 and half year IPP, with 5 and half year tariff. He had never been in trouble and this was looked at his 1st offence. He got this sentence because he pleaded not guilty and still maintains his innocence today. For this parole has labeled him in denial and we will never know when or if we will ever see him come home.
    The day he was sentenced was the day i also started this sentence with him. We refuse to take his daughter in to visit as prison is no place for a child visit let alone see her father sat behind a table not able to stand up and give her a hug.
    Every IPP prisoner should be reviewed, especially if the “second offence” rule comes into force.
    politicians, parole workers and all others involved in the ipp sentence should be realistic and maybe put themselves in the prisoners and their familes shoes.
    For the 1st time in 3 half years we thought some good luck and hopefully news had finally struck. ken clarke well done!. you built up hope for all that are suffering only to knock us down even harder. Stop cowering and back pedalling and allow us a something, even just a date and some hope in getting our love ones home.

  31. Ramon1940
    November 4, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    And this is a Government which condems other Nations for their records on Human Rights.
    We should all get together and send a petition to the ECHR in the name of all the IPP prisoners who have served their minimum time.

    • mohamed abucar
      January 29, 2012 at 2:36 pm

      hi there i love the idead i would love to sign the Petition to ECHR
      could you kindly tell me how.
      this ipp is a waste and joke and allot of money thats is costing us tax payers and in return all we get is our loved once in jail and we paying for it many thanks

  32. maggie
    November 4, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    my son got 5 year ipp ( not sexual or violent ) his now 2 and half year over tariff, done all the courses etc but still refused parole, its a never-ending nightmare for him and his family now ive just given up all hope of him getting out..this country has messed up big time

  33. CAR
    November 4, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    I am not suprised at all at this decision as Cammeron and the like have no balls and fall at the first fence at the thought of confrontation with his fellow MP’s and back benchers who are so full of their own importance and the power they hold over these poor prison individuals, who like many have said, over half of them should never have been given an IPP. This Theresa May deserves to burn in hell for all that she is putting these forgotten prisoners with no hope of freedom. I and many others would like to come face to face with her tell her what she is doing to families, mothers, fathers, children and many many relatives. What are we teaching our children who visit their loved ones in prison. OH it is OK to be in prison I go and see my daddy, mummy, aunt or uncle etc etc,a they are all doing well and are nice and happy when they see us. We are bringing our children up to accept prison as a part of the normal life. Theresa May should have a taste of her own medicine and see if she would like to be locked away for an unknown period of time with no chance of parole on the 1st application and having to prove to untrained probation/parole staff that she is fit to be released. This is abominable and I wish we could all get together and demonstrate the wrong that she is doing to so many HUMAN BEINGS.

  34. Karen Knights
    November 4, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    My son was given an eight month minimum tariff, he has now served three and a half years and just been told he must wait another 18 months for a parole hearing which when it comes will undoubtedly say he must do yet another programme even though he has already completed the extended. Because of public opinion and media hype families are unable to do much to be heard for fear of victimisation. I too am a mother with no hope anymore the people who make these decisions only to promote their own political ambitions have no concept of the affects on prisoners and family members. Our sons are being punished for crimes they might commit not for what they have done.

  35. Susan Pink
    November 4, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    my son is four years over tariff of a 20 months sentance still in a cat b prison just told another 18 months befor parole hearing.
    My hopes are dashed i now feel that he will never be set free.
    He will never see his grandmother again she is 88 and his son is 19 and misses him every day.
    He didnt deserve a 8 year equivalent sentance and still ongoing
    Even if he ever gets out i know he stands a good chance of being returned for the slightest thing.
    From a mother with no hope anymore.

    • Raymond Peytors - theopinionsite.org
      November 4, 2011 at 1:49 pm

      The new release test may be the answer. The problem, as always with this awful sentence, is the time it takes for any changes to be made and implemented. – Editor

      • michel gales
        November 24, 2011 at 5:00 pm

        most of the time you do not get a say in or on the parole bord some young probashon who has only met the prisoner for 20 minits has the say if the propashon do not like the look of the prisner your f////d

  36. jenney
    November 4, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    Why am I not surprised? Theresa May is like all home secretaries and only interested in her own power. Cameron is weak and if it was not for Clarke there would be no hope at all. When will people wake up to what a nasty vindictive country this has become?

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